Epcoritamab + R-Squared: Interim Results

The makers of the bispecific Epcoritamab just issued a press releasewith some interim results from the phase 3 clinical trial for Epcoritamab and R-Squared (Revilid + Rituxan) for Relapsed/Refractory patients with Follicular Lymphoma. The press release points out some very good news. The combination has an Overall Respose Rate of 95.7%, an improvement over R-Squared alone (which has an ORR of 89%). It also had a higher Progression Free Survival; it "reduced the risk of disease progression or death by 79%."

The plan is to present the results at the ASH conference in December, where they will present all of the data. The FDA agreed to a priority review of the combination last month, meaning they should issue a ruling by November 30 (which would be before the ASH conference).

All of this sounds great, but I have some questions. And, to be clear, I'm not suggesting anybody is doing anything wrong.

Te press release gives very little detail. And there's a good reason for this -- they're holding off on releasing any details until the ASH conference, which makes sense. This is a "scheduled interim analysis," meaning they had planned to look at the results they had so far at this point in the trial. Because they haven't competed the trial, they don't want to give too much detail yet.

The other side to all of this is that they need to keep investors happy. A little good news will do that, and a fairly general statement with some plans for the future won't hurt either.

But for me, it all raises more questions than it provides answers. Last year, there were some safety concerns about Epcoritamab, though they were explained by the trial taking place during the Covid pandemic, when some trial participants had lower immunity which caused some side effects. The press release here says that there were no new safety issues with this combination -- only the side effects that were already known for the three different elements. But if there were already some concerns, saying this doesn't really answer the initial questions about safety.

Again, I'm not saying anybody is doing anything wrong. For me, this isn't really an issue with Epcoritamab or its makers. It's more about frustration with the larger system for approving treatments, and the place of the patient in it all.

I'm looking forward to the ASH conference, so we can see more of the data that this FDA application is based on. I have little doubt that the data presented will be positive and encouraging for patients. I hope my questions and concerns are answered. I just wish that I didn't have to have so many of them along the way.

FL Community Podcast

As you know, I'm a big fan of  two things when it comes to Follicular Lymphoma -- getting as much good information as possible, and patients sharing their stories.

So I'm excited to let you know about a new podcast related to Follicular Lymphoma called The FL Community Podcast. It's made by FL patients, for FL patients (and anyone else ho wants to know more about the experience of living with the disease).

The hosts of the podcast are Nicky Greenhalgh and Paul Mollitt. Nicky started the Living with Follicular Lymphoma group on Facebook, and Paul started the related Facebook group for young adults. If you have watched the webinars from the Follicular Lymphoma Foundation, you've seen both of them featured as patient voices in the last few months. Nicky is a clinical nutritionist, specializing in working with patients with cancer, and Paul is a psychotherapist. So they're bringing both personal experience and professional expertise to this podcast. Expect a lot of talk about some of the survivorship issues that have been so important to me lately -- mental health, nutrition, exercise, etc. 

The first episode focuses on "Initial Diagnosis," and their guest is Nicola Attfield. All three of them share their story of being diagnosed with FL, and the shock that came with it, and the emotions surrounding that diagnosis. Their experiences are different from one another, but recognizable to many of us. I won't get into detail, because I think it's important for you to listen for yourselves. It's about 49 minutes long, and worth the time.

As I said, I think sharing our stories with one another is really important. This podcast is different from a lot of what I usually share with you, which tends to focus on things like presentations at medical conferences or articles in medical journals. And obviously, that kind of information is important for us to have. It lets us informed conversations with our doctors.

But just as important is hearing from other patients. I think it helps us feel less alone. As unique as all of our stories are, there are many things that we share, too, and hearing that someone else was shocked at a diagnosis because they felt no symptoms, or that they feared for their kids, or that they went into a depression right afterwards -- it's comforting to know that someone else had that same experience.

I think it's fantastic that there are so many more accessible sources of information about Follicular Lymphoma like the FLF webinars and this podcast. When I was diagnosed 17 years ago, there was very little of this. I found a Non Hodgkims Lymphoma support group online, which was wonderful for me. The folks in the group had been diagnosed with many different kinds of NHL, including FL. But that led to some tension sometimes, too, as people brought up certain subjects that didn't pertain to everyone.

So at times, I was reluctant to share with the group, especially good news. My feeling was that if I had just had a diagnosiversary, it might make someone feel bad that I was doing well and they weren't. But what I found was the opposite -- when I shared that I had been diagnosed 5 years before, it made people happy to read. I was kind of a role model. People knew it was possible to make it to 5 years. 

So there are lots of reasons to share our stories. And this podcast will be a great way to do it.

So watch the first episode, and think about the kinds of subjects you'd like to hear them address. Their email is available by going to their channel's page. You can let them know what you'd like to hear more about.

I hope you enjoy the podcast, and continue to listen to them. I think it's going to be a very helpful thing for us all.

Looking Back

If you're on Facebook, you might have experienced its "memories" feature. Sometimes it will send you a notification letting you know that, for example, five years ago on this day, you posted something. And then it will share the post with you, and give you the option of sharing it on your page and making it public.

I rarely post on Facebook these, days, though I visit it pretty much every day. A few days ago, it gave me a "memory":

I remember this picture very well. It was taken at a family reunion in West Virginia 16 years ago, and the person whose face is blocked out is a family member that I enjoy spending time with a lot. It's a very happy memory (and not just because there is so much less white in my beard than there is now).

If you've been reading the blog for even a few months, you might know that I was diagnosed  with Follicular Lymphoma over 17 years ago. So this picture was taken about 18 months after my diagnosis.

When I got the memory from Facebook, I texted the person in the picture. "We look so young, " I said. "And I still have that shirt." She laughed and told me that she still had that blue hoodie. 

I was still watching and waiting. It was about 6 month before I started treatment. I've kept that shirt for so long because it has the name Jon Lester on the back. Lester was very important to me (and still is). He was a pitcher for my favorite team (I grew up in Boston), a Lymphoma survivor, but more importantly, he played a key role in helping me explain my diagnosis to my kids. My oldest has always been a baseball fan, and even at 10 years old, he knew about Jon Lester's cancer history. So when I was diagnosed, I told him that it was the same kind of cancer that Jon Lester had, and it helped him see things more positively. (Lester had a different, more aggressive type of Lymphoma, but the details didn't matter at that point. What mattered was that my son knew Lester had cancer, got treatment, and came back to help the Red Sox win the World Series in 2007. 

And if you want to now how important Jon Lester was to me, especially in the years right after diagnosis, then enter "Jon Lester" in the search box at the top of the blog. He shows up in 20 (now 21) different posts over the years.

I wore that shirt to all of my treatments, too. It was my uniform -- my red Jon Lester shirt, an orange long-sleeved "Life Is Good" shirt, an d a pair of dark blue Adidas sweat pants. Very comfortable. And I still have all three items of clothing. I remember going back to the oncologist's office for a follow-up visit soon after I was finished treatment, and having to use the bathroom in the treatment room. I had just come from work, so I was dressed a little better than my old shirts and baggy seat pants. I saw my treatment room nurse and she didn't recognize me. That tells you how sloppy I looked in my treatment uniform. But I was comfortable.

**********

Memories are a funny thing. And I don't just mean the Facebook kind. It's very easy to see a photo from 16 years ago and remember the great things. Long conversations with a favorite family member. White water rafting on the New River. Massive games of touch football and wiffle ball. Hanging out in a hot tub after the kids are in bed. Looking at that picture brings back all of those wonderful memories and more from our week in West Virginia. 

But not all memories are happy ones, and goodness knows those of who have been diagnosed with cancer have some not-so-happy ones. 

It's tempting to tell you to ignore the bad ones and focus on the good ones.

I certainly have been doing that here. I didn't mention the speeding ticket I got, or the sheer panic we felt when our raft tipped over and our 7 year old starting floating down the river on her own, or the fights between family members that week.

And as happy as my Jon Lester shirt makes me feel now, I didn't mention that I was wearing it when I had an allergic reaction to my first dose of Rituxan. Or when I would lie in bed after I got home from treatment, clutching my stomach from the horrible sharp pain I'd feel afterwards, until I feel asleep from exhaustion. Or the deep depression I felt, starting a few days after I invoked Jon Lester's name to my baseball-loving son, wondering what would happen to him if I wasn't around.

I don't think we should forget those things. 

Not because they were in any way enjoyable. But because we're still here to remember them.

Our memories aren't just souvenirs of the past. They're reminders of all we've been through. And of all we are able to go through and still make it out to the other side. 

Don't forget the past. But don't dwell on it either. Treat your memories like an old t-shirt. Tuck them away in a drawer. But don't lose them. Don't forget they are there. 

Use them to remember just how strong you are.

EHA: BMS-986458 for Follicular Lymphoma

As I have mentioned before, late May and early June is typically a busy time for Follicular Lymphoma research, with presentations at ASCO. (Though this year was kind of a less busy year for FL). But soon after that, in mid-June, the European Hematalogical Association's conference on Lymphoma takes place in Lugano, Switzerland. I don't usually hear as much about that conference, so I don't write about it as much. But there have been some interesting results coming from it this year.

One presentation that I have seen several stories about was called "BMS-986458, A FIRST-IN-CLASS, BIFUNCTIONAL CEREBLON-DEPENDENT LIGAND-DIRECTED DEGRADER (LDD) OF B-CELL LYMPHOMA 6 (BCL6) IN PATIENTS WITH RELAPSED/REFRACTORY NON-HODGKIN LYMPHOMA: INITIAL PH 1 RESULTS."

The presentation describes the very early results of a phase 1 clinical trial, so there's certainly no guarantee that this research will ultimately be successful. (Remember that less than 10% of cancer treatments that enter clinical trials are eventually approved.) But it's a very different kind of treatment, and worth writing about and keeping an eye on.

The treatment is currently known as BMS-986458, though it will eventually have a name that's easier to remember if it keeps moving forward. BMS-986458 is "oral, highly selective bifunctional cereblon-dependent LDD of BCL6."

There's lots of unpack there.

First, let's look at the target for this treatment, BCL6. As the leader of this research says in an interview about the presentation, BCL6, short for B Cell Lymphoma 6, has been a target for Lymphoma researchers for a long time. It is a protein that is connected to the BCL6 gene. The main function of BCL6 is to make sure B Cells (the cells that are cancerous in FL) can change so they can recognize invaders like bacteria or viruses. The B Cells can recognize an invader, fight it off, and then die. But if something happens to BCL6, then the B Cells can grow without apoptosis -- the natural process that results in the cells dying. No dying means they continue to grow uncontrolled, and uncontrolled cells means cancer, in the case FL or Diffuse Large B Cell Lymphoma or some other kind of B Cell Lymphoma. 

So BMS-986458 is meant to find cancerous B Cells by focusing on the BCL6 protein. It "degrades" or breaks down that protein, and since that protein is necessary for cell growth, the result is apoptosis -- the cell dies the way it is supposed to.

In the small phase 1 study that is described in the EHA presentation, BMS-986458 was given to 22 patients, including 13 with DLBCL, 3 with high-grade B-cell lymphoma with MYC and BCL2 rearrangements, and 5 with Follicular Lymphoma. A total of 13 patients were evaluated after a median of 2.4 months. 7 of them had a Partial Response and 3 had a Complete Response to the treatment. 

The primary goal of a phase 1 treatment, however, is to evaluate safety -- to figure out the best dose of a treatment while causing the fewest side effects. Safety was good -- there were no grade 3 or greater Adverse Events, which is very encouraging. However, one patient had to leave the trial because it seemed to affect a different health issue and another had to have the dose reduced because of side effects. In all 4 of the patients who were not evaluated had to leave the study because of adverse events/side effects. 

The early results are very interesting. Definitely worth keeping track of. The lead researcher said in that interview that combining BMS-986458 with bispecifics or monoclonal antibodies seems like a logical next step, since the combination would work against the cancer cells in different, hopefully complimentary ways.

But they are very early results. Lots can happen as the trials move forward. But it's good to be hopeful.

FLF Webinar: Charting our Progress Towards a Cure

The Follicular Lymphoma Foundation held a webinar a couple of weeks ago called "Charting our Progress Towards a Cure." It's an excellent webinar -- lots of information and lots of things to think about. 

The webinar provides some updates on FL research from a symposium that the Foundation sponsored at the 18th International Conference of Malignant Lymphoma (ICML) in Lugano, Switzerland last month. The ICML is one of the most important Lymphoma conferences in the world, and for the last few years, the FLF has held an event like this that provides up-to-date information for doctors about Follicular Lymphoma. 

Among the topics that the Expert Speaker, Prof. Jessica Okosun of Barts Cancer Institute in the UK, discusses are CAR-T, Bispecifics, and combinations that use multiple treatments together to target the FL cells in lots of different ways. The goal is to give patients the longest Progression Free Survival possible.

Prof. Okosun gives a very optimistic overview of several newer treatments and treatments in trials now. There are enough newer treatments in the pipeline, she says, that in 5 to 10 years, we may not even be using traditional chemotherapy or Rituxan anymore. There may be enough advances that these "old" treatments have been surpassed by newer, more effective and safer treatments.

And that brings up an important topic, and really the focus of the webinar -- the idea of curing Follicular Lymphoma. It's a controversial topic, in some ways. FL is still considered by many to be incurable, which means there are lots of treatments that can put the disease into remission or partial remission or keep it stable, but not necessarily wipe it out permanently. Individuals might be "cured," but not enough patients are in that situation that the entire disease is considered curable. 

When I say the idea of a cure is controversial, I mean that there are disagreements about whether or not that's true. There are some experts that say patients can be cured outright. There are others that speak about a "functional cure," meaning that a patient might not be technically cured, but are living with the disease for many years (perhaps the rest of their lives) without needing treatment.  

Part of what makes this all so difficult is that we can't say for sure what the future holds. We don't know if the disease will come back for any individual. I'll give a very personal example -- me. I haven't needed treatment in 15 years. But I also haven't had a scan in many years, and the last time I had one, there was still some evidence of the disease being present. Am I cured? Was this a "functional cure," since I'm living for so long without treatment? 

Personally, I don't consider myself "cured." It's always in the back of my mind that it might come back. 

But I live my life in many ways as if I'm cured. I have long-term plans for my life. I don't act like it's going to come back, even if I acknowledge the possibility. I think it's a good way to live.

In addition to the Expert Speaker, the webinar also features a patient speaker, Paul Christopher Mollitt. He does an excellent job of talking about what a cure would mean to him, and also talks about how he has made treatment decisions since her was diagnosed in 2017. (And he let viewers know that he was recently declared in remission after Bendamustine and Rituxan!!!!)

There's a third speaker for the webinar, Dr. Mitchell Smith, the Chief Medical Officer for the Follicular Lymphoma Foundation. If you've attended or watched these webinars, you know what an excellent job he does of moderating the discussion, connecting ideas from the speakers, and answering questions. 

There's a lot more detail in this webinar, especially about some of the very interesting research that came out of the ICML conference. It's certainly worth spending the hour or so that it takes to watch the entire thing. Lots of good information, and lots of reasons to be hopeful. 

 

Two Upcoming Webinars

I like to highlight webinars or other educational events that I think will be useful to us, and the Lymphoma Research Foundation has a couple of events coming up that are worth highlighting.

The first one is happening next Tuesday (July 22) at 1:00pm Eastern. It's called "Understanding Immunotherapy for Lymphoma (CAR T-Cell Therapy, Bispecific Antibodies, & Antibody-Drug Conjugates)." The webinar will give an overview of Immunotherapies; discuss when Immunotherapies are appropriate; look at Clinical Trials; and give advice about managing side effects. There will be time for questions and answers.

The webinar will be run by two Lymphoma experts, Dr. Samuel Yamshon of Weill Cornell and Dr. Justin Kline of The University of Chicago.

You can register for the webinar here.  This isn't specific to Follicular Lymphoma, but it should give a good overview of some of the treatments that Follicular Lymphoma experts seem to be most excited about. 

A second LRF event is also not specifically about Follicular Lymphoma, but might also be useful to many of us.  It's called "Ask the Doctor About Lymphoma: Information for Relapsed/Refractory Patients," and it's happening Wednesday, July 30 from 4:00 to 6:00pm ET.

LRF's "Ask the Doctor" series is just what it sounds like. It begins with a presentation from a Lymphoma expert, giving information about a topic (in this case, Relapsed/Refractory Lymphoma, with a focus on symptoms, treatment options, and what to ask your health care team). But "Ask the Doctor" sessions are twice as long as the other webinars, and spend much more time on Questions and Answers. So this is an excellent opportunity to get specific information from an expert.

The expert who will presenting and answering questions is Dr. Boyu Hu of the University of Utah. You can register for the Ask the Doctor event here.

(And for those of you who have not yet had treatment, and feel like you're missing out, there's an Ask the Doctor event for you next month -- "Ask the Doctor About Lymphoma: Information for Newly Diagnosed Patients." Read more about it here.)

I hope you find this information useful. 

Keep learning and stay well.

Some Analysis on Tafasitamab (Monjuvi)

CURE magazine has a nice interview with Dr. Christina Poh of the Fred Hutch Cancer Center about Tafasitamab. 

As you might remember, Tafasitamab was recently approved by the FDA, in combination with R-Squared (Rituxan and Revlimid/Lenalidomide), for Follicular Lymphoma. I wrote about this recently, looking at the the announcement from the FDA. 

But Dr. Poh offers some more insight into why this approval is so significant. Some of it came out in the FDA announcement, but hearing it from a hematologist/oncologist at a prestigious cancer center is even better.

For example, Dr. Poh points out how great the design of the clinical trial was. It's a double-blind study, meaning half of the patients in the trial receive one treatment, and the other half receives a different treatment. This allows for a direct comparison between the two. But more importantly, as a "double blind" study, it means that neither group knew for sure which of the treatments they were receiving. Knowing the treatment (which happens in lots of trials) can influence how a participant feels. If they know a treatment may cause a certain side effect, the patient may "feel" that symptom and ask to pull out of the trial. That's not a criticism of the patient -- any trial participant has the right to pull out of the trial for any reason at any time. But it's one example of how a double-blind study can be more significant. 

Another element that Dr. Poh points out is that the population more accurately mirrored a "real world" population. Many trials for newer treatments have strict limitation on who can participate in the trial. It's for a good reason. If a new treatment might affect a patient's heart, for example, then patients with heart issues are kept out of the trial. If they did participate and then had heart issues, it would be hard to know if the new treatment caused the issue or if it was a pre-existing heart issue. Once a treatment is approved, researchers might do a "real world" study without those restrictions, to get a better idea of how the treatment will really affect all patients. Because all of the elements in this trial (Tafasitamab, Rituxan, and Revlimid) had already been approved, there was already plenty of "real world" data on side effects. So the trial could include a wide range of FL patients -- those who were asymptomatic, those with POD24, etc. So there is more certainty that the combination will be helpful for many patients.

Finally, Dr. Poh talks about the significance of this being a non-chemotherapy treatment. When R-squared was approved, it was a very big deal.  It was the first time a non-chemotherapy treatment was shown to be as effective as traditional chemo like R-CHOP or B-R. And now, this combination is perhaps even more effective than R-Squared. Because treatments like this are more targeted, affecting fewer non-cancer cells than chemotherapy, they have a different set of side effects. (One of the big takeaways from R-Squared being approved was just that -- different side effects, not necessarily fewer or less harsh side effects.) But the feeling is, according to Dr. Poh, that it will not result in long-term side effects like bone marrow damage that can come from chemo. So it may result in greater use by oncologists.

It will be interesting to see if that is true -- that this non-chemo treatment becomes a replacement for chemo, or if it becomes just another option for second and third line situations. I haven't seen too much of this kind of analysis, but it's speculation, anyway. "Real world" data will tell us for sure in the years to come.

Dr. Poh was on the team that conducted the trial, so she has seen the effects of the treatment in patients. If any of you has a conversation with your oncologist about this as a treatment option, please do share what you learned.