Very cool research out of Stanford university School of Medicine -- liquid biopsies that can help doctors tell if a treatment is working or not, weeks or even months earlier than we've previously been able to tell.
The research was published in the Journal of Clinical Oncology, in an article called "Circulating Tumor DNA Measurements As Early Outcome Predictors in Diffuse Large B-Cell Lymphoma."
So, first off, the research was done on patients with Diffuse Large B-Cell Lymphoma (DLBCL), which is not Follicular Lymphoma. It's more like a meaner, more aggressive cousin. And it's the type of lymphoma that FL most often turns into when it Transforms.
Like Follicular Lymphoma, DLBCL comes in lots of different forms, so it's hard to predict which way it will go, and which treatment might work best. The liquid biopsy described in the article might help with that. (A press release from Stanford was a big help to me in understanding all of this.)
What's a "liquid biopsy"? Well, most of us have had solid biopsies -- maybe a fine needle aspiration, where a few cells are taken from a lymph node. Maybe a full lymph node removal (like I had), and maybe even a bone marrow biopsy (me again!). Cells are removed and examined to determine if they are cancerous.
A liquid biopsy involves the same process -- looking at cells to determine if they are cancerous -- but the liquid is blood. They have always been hard to do. There is a lot moving around in the blood, and a cancerous cell in the blood might be on its way out, so it doesn't say much about the cancer that's happening elsewhere.
For this study, the researchers looked at something called "Circulating Tumor DNA," or ctDNA. Basically, when a cancer cell is dying, it releases ctDNA. The researchers were able to find the particular DNA sequence they were looking for in the blood (there were possibly millions to search through). [And don't ask me how they picked them out. I'm almost certain they didn't do it by hand.]
They looked at 271 DLBCL patients in six cancer centers (three in the U.S. and three in Europe). They measured the amount of ctDNA in the blood before they began treatment, and then after the first round of chemo, and again after the second round.(Chemotherapy is still the most common first treatment for DLBCL.)
About 98% of patients had ctDNA in their blood before treatment. A drop in ctDNA after a treatment is a good sign. They found that patients who had a 100-fold drop in ctDNA after the first treatment, and a 300-fold drop after the second treatment, had superior outcomes after 24 months -- they were more likely to have lived without the disease coming back in that time.
The implications here are very important. Right now, a patient might have 6 rounds of chemo, to make sure the cancer is all gone. If a liquid biopsy shows a huge drop in ctDNA after only two rounds (over three weeks), that might show that the two round of chemo was enough, and the other 4 rounds weren't necessary. That's a huge Quality of Life issue -- fewer side effects, less cost.
At the same time, a patient might have an increase in ctDNA after 2 rounds. that would show the chemo isn't working, and would allow doctors to stop it and choose a different treatment right away, one that is more aggressive. That could possibly save a life.
The researchers have already done successful research on this process with lung cancer. Maybe similar tests for other cancers -- including FL? -- are in the future?
Maybe so. We can keep hoping. We have lots of treatments available to us -- and more on the way -- but knowing whether or not they are actually working would be an excellent next step.
Hi Bob,
ReplyDeleteWhen I was first diagnosed (March 2007) I spoke to a couple of people (not doctors) at a Relay For Life event. One of them mentioned that their FL had transformed to a faster more aggressive form of lymphoma and after treatment, they were considered cured. Is DBCL curable? This conversation was so long ago and my knowledge of my own illness was sorely lacking, so I may have misunderstood what the person was saying....I was in a fog at that time ;o)
Thanks for your Blog,
Jackie
Hi Jackie.
ReplyDeleteYes, DLBCL is considered curable. I don't have any reliable numbers for the cure rate, but it is considered curable. I believe, too, that some people who transform from FL can have their DLBCL cured, but continue to have FL after treatment. It's another one of those "no easy answers" things that make FL so frustrating.
Bob
Hi Bob
ReplyDeleteWhen is Fl considered "cured?" Following a March 2016 NIH CAR-T infusion my wife has been in complete remission for 30 months. In a UPENN CAR-T clinical trial, 10 of 14 FL patients achieved a complete remission - all are still in complete remission, the longest of which is 5+ years. I suspect these patients will eventually die of something other than FL.
William
Note: Folks can read about FL CAR-T at https://fnhlben.wordpress.com/
Hi William.
ReplyDeleteFor most cancers, 5 years in remission is considered "cured," since statistics show that there is a much smaller chance of recurrence after 5 years.
That's for MOST cancers, but not FL. Really, that number is kind of an agreed-upon thing among experts. And of course, there's no guarantee that even after 5 years, any cancer won't come back (unfortunately, that happens all the time).
For a long time, the median overall survival for FL was 8-10 years, and I think most experts still hold that number as the one to measure everything against. There is also a fairly high chance of recurrence (I don't know what the number is), so even someone with 10+ years is not considered cured by most experts.
But there are some (Dr. Bruce Cheson is one) who think that a 10 year remission is enough to call someone with FL "cured." But there aren't too many who want to have that conversation right now.
My guess is that, at some point, we'll know enough about different sub-sub-types to know which ones are curable. But that might be a while.
All this is my own opinion and observation, of course.
Bob
Hi Bob
ReplyDeleteInterestingly Dr. Bruce Cheson was one of my wife's oncologists during an Ibrutinib clinical trial at Georgetown University Hospital. BTW Ibrutinib for her only worked for about 12 months then she crashed hard (9 days inpatient at Walter Reed) enroute to an NIH CAR-T infusion in March 2016.
William